Networking Forum

My comment is related to an old saying; “It is a poor dog that will not wag its own tail”. In many instances I am content to follow the lead of another who is in charge. However, if that person will not take the lead, I will soon find myself leading. The same goes for self advocacy.

Somewhere in my upbringing, I was taught not to let myself be walked upon and will not let that occur. Part of that is to keep my skills up, my resume current, and not be content with at least looking into new products, processes and procedures. If you do not, you run the risk of being behind against your will.

Thanks, Michelle, for your comment. What I am talking about here are situations where the accessibility issue does not simply involve the blind employee learning something new. Instead, they are situations where an employer has made changes in hardware or software without giving any thought to accessibility, and now believes the best solution might be to simply toss out the blind person rather than consider reasonable accomodations. I am happy to look for a new job in any other case, but I strongly believe inaccessible technology shouldn't let the company off the hook easily, especially when it is implemented thoughtlessly and in light of other possibly more accessible alternatives.

It comes down to the company that you are working for. They will either accommodate or they will not. My main goal right now is to find a company that will except me for who I am and my skills.

That doesn't mean that I don't want to change the things that I need to but, you can't keep pushing something that isn't going to work. Many companies are now putting into their jobs performance standards that need to meet. If you can't meet them, (the performance standards) you can't do the job. Now if you can do the job, but not as fast as others you are out of luck.

With the amount of people that are now out of work, I guess people can stand to be a little bit more picky. Also people don't seem to stay with a company for a very long time. All I can do right now is to find the correct place for me.

I can also use any information that I have gained to help others with their goals.

By the way Darrell, I really like the fact of your links.

Lori,

In many cases, your employer may value your qualifications and whish to accomodate your needs, but you may still not be able to perform the duties of the job. It is often the case that employers purchase and implement one or more turnkey CRM (customer relationship management) and other types of technology solutions that turn out to be inaccessible. It isn't your employer's fault, but that of the manufacturer of the "solution" to which the employer is now bound. In such cases, you're restricted not only by your employer's willingness to accomodate but also that of the manufacturer of the inaccessible software, as well as the agency or organization helping you adapt to the job.

This is an issue affecting any blind person who wishes to hold *any* job that requires use of a computer for *any* reason. Even if you get a job that is entirely based on accessible technology right now, it is bound to be an issue that comes up in the future anytime your employer considers upgrading the company's technology infrastructure, which is an ultimate certainty. We all may not like this, but it is now or ultimately going to be at some point in the future, necessary for all of us to advocate for our career survival. In most cases, we can be qualified and are able to perform a job at or above the performance levels of our sighted peers, so long as we have the skill and the technology is accessible to us.

There have been few comments to this post so far. I believe it is quite difficult for all of you to imagine what it must be like to lose one's job or to have one's career threatened not by anything within one's control, but instead due to a thoughtlessly purchased and implemented technology "solution" that does not reasonably accomodate assistive technology. It isn't a matter of technology, but how that technology impacts people's lives, including ours. We are valuable people who deserve to have our voices heard.

Thank you so much for taking a stand as a self pro-claimed accessibility evangelist. I find not enough people stand up for injustice and discrimination in this world. It doesn’t matter whether it is the simple act of a person assuming that all homeless people choose to be homeless or as stark as the gang rapes in Darfur. It is good to have someone concentrate on a specific issue.

However, I see the issue that you mention actually NOT being resolved. I saw the issue as your employer not forcing their software vendor to provide accessible software. This issue according to your story remains unresolved. It merely appears that your employer decided that the squeaky wheel gets the grease as they say and they chose to grease you with a new job instead of fixing the underling issue. I think the perhaps the that more of us should join together in letter writing campaign in support of one another informing the software giants that they are inadvertently causing unnecessary unemployment for capable employees due to the inaccessibility of their software. It would seem these software giants should be the ones being informed of their obligations as a progressive and supportive partner in the world’s economy. In addition the specific software vendor you mention should really be informed about how they are not living up to the word of their own CFO "Oracle is committed to creating accessible technologies and products that enhance the overall workplace environment and contribute to the productivity of our employees, our customers, and our customers' customers." —Safra Catz, President and CFO, Oracle

The reason I lost my job was not necessarily the fact that there was software problems, though my zoom text for me might have been a challenge.

It was that my job in a call center was set for people that didn't have visual problems. Many places now write performance standards into the job. Many places now look at the sub products and not the final product. In the past people might have looked more at the final product. If you could get the final product you would have a job.

Now you get that if they gave you help and an accommodation it would be unfair to the more able people. I know that it wasn't the correct place for me at that point, but I was raised to support myself. I always say that the ADA now is about as strong as wet paper. Sorry to be so bitter, but I guess I am just to Old sometimes to keep pushing in a younger work world.

I have a question, why do we always have to be better than everyone else?

If you are given an accomodation beyond that which is considered "reasonable" under the law and required in order for you to be expected to meet the performance specifications, then it would be unfair. Otherwise, well, the law allows for reasonable accomodations and they are just simply the right thing to provide. Workplaces already accomodate conditions within a person's control, including pregnancy, so why not accomodate us, too? The performance standards should be held the same for the blind as they are for the sighted, but the technology should be equally accessible and usable for all. That's called a level playing field.

As far as being better? I'd put myself up against any similarly qualified sighted person in my field any time and I'm quite sure that, most of the time, I'd come up on top. I work on a small team of three associates who work on our company's knowledge base. On a regular basis, I produce three or four times more work than the other two associates, and the quality of the work I produce is objectively considered far superior. So, hmm, let's see. Blind guy utilizes reasonable accomodations to produce more work at a higher quality than his sighted peers. Doesn't that seem to be a win-win for everyone? I'd put *any* competent, qualified blind person who knows her stuff up against a similar sighted guy or gal anytime. Bring it on! :-)

My question/comment comes under the heading of "next job." At a recent interview with a freight forwarder, I was told that my talents were indeed perfect for the job. But that the security efforts of the big bosses in NYC would prvent me from using Jaws on their computer systems. When I probed this a bit further, it means that they use dummy terminals so as to not allow input to their data. Thus, they say, there is no way to interface with their systems using Jaws. I am researching this further. I appreciate Darryl's points.

Sincerely,

Peter Smith Boston

Though you can't insist on doing something that places a company at risk, JAWS is used in thousands of companies and is quite arguably not a security risk in and of itself. Many such companies also continue to rely on "dumb" terminals, yet they employ many blind people quite happily. The solution is the use of some terminal emulation hardware and software on a regular PC connected to the same company network. I certainly would not just accept this answer and move on, as it represents the path of least resistance for the employer. All the same, it isn't yet the time for strong advocacy. Instead, ask them what type of terminals are used. Look for terms such as "VT100" or "VT3270". Then research terminal emulation solutions and even post to some blind community mailing lists, such as blindtech and blindgeekzone asking additional questions about specific terminal emulation solutions and their accessibility with screen readers. Finally, propose the use of a regular PC connected with their network using terminal emulation as a "reasonable accomodation" that may enable you to perform the duties of your job. Supply some options resulting from your research. If at all possible, provide this information in writing.

In thinking about my experiences over a nearly 30 year Professional Career, whenever Electronic/Information Technology (E and IT) or Assistive Technologies (AT) issues have arisen, I can honestly note, the shortcoming has been my own. The key to success, whether it be in the procurement of a position or, procurement of E and IT/At is a fundimental basic concept--"NETWORK". I cannot recall one position in the public/private sector when I did not immediately identify those individuals in the organization who, were critical to my success. To mention but a few--Human Resources Manager/Director; Benefits Manager/Director; Employee Development/Management Training Manager/Director and, of course, the Chief Information Officer (CIO) or E and IT Manager/Director. In keeping in contact with these individuals, I was always keenly aware of changes in policy; training opportunities or the possibility of new or changes in technology. As far as the latter, this contact enabled me to have input at the ground level thus insuring existing AT was compatable with E and IT being introduced or, if not, what the vendor providing the technology could do to insure my access. Today, whether it be Sun Micro Systems, MicroSoft, Adobe or the myriad of other software providers, I can be assured my AT will be compatable because I am brought into the [process at the ground level. This is also true of hardware, telecommunications (both hard wired and wireless) and virtual environments.

James,

You have been quite fortunate thus far in your career. Though I, too, tend to foster strong working relationships with the IT and other relevant people in my places of employment, that's sometimes insufficient, especially when it comes to an outsourcing situation where you're serving a third party client on your employer's behalf. In most situations, however, your approach is a good one that is essential in order to catch and resolve these challenges *before* they become issues for potential job loss.

Darrell, My comments are exclusively limited to public/private sector entities where there is/was an "In-House" E and IT Department. In all cases, the internal controls were far superior to those identified when considering "Contracting Out". While, it is evident certain functions lend themselves to a "outside Vendor", increasingly in public/pivate sector organizations where, data security is critical, the option of 3rd Parties having access defeats the cost savings. Having worked on the recently completed update/refresh of Recommendations to the U.S. Access Board on Section 508 Standards and Chapter 255, Telecommunications Act (1996), it is clear that Federal government agencies while procuring nearly $64 Billion in technology/technology services and telecommunications, it will continue to be those private sector entities that will continue to Contract Out as a cost saving measure despite the documented experiences they have (and seldom reveal) related to issues/concerns with vendors and their organizations bleeding intensively when it comes to lost/stolen data/information.

Hi Darrell and others. Darrell, I thank you for your great accessibility evangelism efforts, and I really enjoy your blog and podcast and the Blind Access discussion group. From July of 1999 up until May of 2001 I worked as a receptionist at a nonprofit organization whose mission was to increase the awareness of people with disabilities, both socially and in the work world. I think I mentioned it on here previously, but I'd like to tell my story--or part of it--for any newcomers. When I first started working at this nonprofit, called Natural Ties, I worked there on a volunteer basis because the office staff wanted to give me a chance to prove myself capable of working in an office. I started out typing memos and other documents for the organization. I did this on a laptop which was outfitted with Window-Eyes. Before going any further I should mention that I had very little if any knowledge about Window-Eyes at the time, and I told this to my VR counselor. I told him I'd much prefer JAWS since I had that screen reader on my home PC and it was therefore what I was used to. However, VR wouldn't listen and they gave me Windo-Eyes. This was only a demo copy though, which meant I had to constantly reboot the laptop. This was an old laptop, so rebooting constantly wasn't a great thing to do even when the unit was running on AC power. I had no knowledge about the Internet or email at the time, so one of the staff would always have to help me with any tasks I had to perform online. They didn't mind doing this at all. Fortunately, an adaptive tech person who was working at the Chicago Lighthouse at the time was kind enough to provide me with a Braille cheat sheet for Window-Eyes. After awhile I was put on Natural Ties' payroll, and I finally did receive JAWS. I was off and running! There was a slight accessibility problem with the phone system that was in place when I came on board though, because whenever the phone would ring a line would light up and I had no way of knowing whose line was ringing. This problem was quickly resolved when an anonymous donor gave us a new phone system. Not only could I answer on any of the lines, but these new phones had a quieter ring. A little while after I was put on the organization's payroll the database software was upgraded, and we found that neither JAWS nor Window-Eyes worked with it. As if that wasn't bad enough, my VR counselor started harassing us. I can't recall exactly his reasoning for doing this, but I never even had a chance to problem-solve with the office staff about the database accessibility problem, and my VR counselor coerced them into taking me off their payroll. So thus began my second stint as a volunteer, and any and all screen readers were taken away by VR, never to return. When I called my state Client Assistance Program, the reasoning I was given for the VR counselor's iradic behavior was that one of our office staff had been a long-time friend of mine. I finally left employment there due to health reasons, and not long after that I found out through friends one night that Natural Ties had shut down due to financial reasons. But all in all I'd say it was a great experience for me. I'm now working at another nonprofit as an administrative assistant, and I'm using the free and open-source screen reader Non-Visual Desktop Access at the office. I mainly answer phones and make calls from a list. This list is contained in an Excel document, and NVDA works quite well with it. This organization had a rather inaccessible website, but they have been in frequent contact with me about what to do to make it totally accessible. I didn't particularly want to call VR and tell them about my new job because of what had happened previously. I totally agree with those of you who say VR needs to be improved. Natural Ties is being revitalized, but just the social part.

Going way back to earlier posts about advocacy, I want to underline that what Darrell said about companies receiving Federal funds and their obligations to provide accessibility. Darrell was successful, at least in securing a different job, because he used the leverage that the Federal requirements provided.

I am not blind, and my disability is a hidden one. I have just had an experience with ADA that shows me how HR and management can make a mockery of the ADA process. For me, given that the job was very low level, it was not worth elevating my ADA request to a complaint. With some hidden disabilities, the issues are not so black and white as they are with people who are blind or have low vision.

I applaud Darrell for his persistence and unwillingness to be pushed aside because of inaccessible software, or more specifically the unwillingness of an organization to listen to options.

In coming back to review comments posted since my last review about a week ago, I find most reinforce my initial contention--NETWORK. Many of the individual issues/concerns identified could have been remedied or avoided through better communication, e.g. networking within the organization; with fellow employees or through the myriad of blogs or related sites on topics noted. There seems to be a common thread that "State VR agencies don't work. In my 28 years experience in State/Federal Regulatory Compliance, I find it's true. So, if it doesn't work do we complain?

My response, "Absolutely, Positively NO". If, we want the independence, the career we seek and, the accompanying benefits then, we do more than Hope or, Complain. We roll up our sleeves; focus our efforts and continue to build our networks that enable us to achieve. I believe it was the Spanish philosopher, George Santiana who noted, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". If, we can't learn from those who have proceeded us and, their hard won battles, we likewise, are "condemned" to repeat their mis-steps and experience the same pitfalls they experienced--likely without the need for this wasted action.

I have not personally experienced this but every once in a while my husband faces this possibility. It is absolutely terrifying to think that you may lose your livelihood because of inaccessible technology. In addition to self advocacy, it is nice to learn of other resources.

Self Advocacy is definitely the best.

When Industry in general upgrade from one System to another, perhaps, becoming primarily Robotic, therefore, non disabled Worker's loosing their job's. Where do those Workers make complaints?

Blind and Disabled Workers must mature and accept Risks the same as all other Workers.

In many situations, however, utilizing the Power and Skills of Disability, Engineering, as provided by all, State, Rehabilitation Agencies can often save, or create new Jobs.

C. Fred Stout

San Antonio, Texas