Networking Forum

I believe the question posed is a matter of one's perception. I read the viewpoints several times, each time substituting a different social category , i.e. latino; hispanic; individual of color; woman; over age 50 male adult or any combination of class variables combined. The result? All segments have common factors distinguishing them and, issues/concerns to overcome when it comes to employment. I believe, as disabled community members, we need focus on two, well travelled idioms: 1) From the Spanish philosopher, George Santiana, "He who forgets history is condemned to re-live it". 2) President Theodore Roosevelt, "We are but one society with but one common goal". Related to the first, we, as disabled community members, have a long history of those who, have succeeded as is apparent from many who have posted to E-Sight. We need take the best practices of our fellows and, incorporate them into our activities of daily life. In some cases these "practices" may need to be modified based on the nature of our disbility but, we should strive to build upon the ground work that has been laid out before us. Related to the 2nd quote, I believe Teddy Roosevelt had it right. If we continually place ourselves in one niche or another, we will loose sight of the opportunities that lie before us. No one said the society in which we live is "fair", "secular" or "non-bias". It is up to each of us, as individuals, to meet the challenge, devise the mechanics to overcome the challenge then, proceed to our ultimate goal. Please, do not consider comments contained herein "poliana". Comments are based on living with insulin-dependent diabetes (45/50 years); total blindness (30/50 years); other diabetes complications (40/50 years) and progressively worsening independent mobility. I absolutely refuse to compromise my standard, i.e. personal best and, putting forth 100% plus to achieve my expectations/goals/desires. I focus on what is real and, possible; not hope to accomplish it but, rather, to set forth a plan to achieve what "I" desire.

Also a product of the '60s I had heard the "You have to be twice as good as your sighted peers" on many ocasions, including from my state agency V. R. counselor. I saw my blind peers crying after college prep semenars, as I felt the anguish myself. I've now been in the counseling field for more then thirty-five years, the last seventeen as a v. r. counselor in the very same office of which I was a client. I tell my young people heading towards college and work, that they do not have to be twice as good as their sighted peers,but, they better be as good. That's reality.

Joe, Yes, clients need to be "equal". However, in this economy, what do you tell those entering the "Work Force" or "Collegiate" environment to insure they have a focus on their goal; the Knowledge/skills/abilities (KSA's) to achieve and, a benchmark on which to judge their success or, progress.

I've heard the "you have to be better than your sighted counterparts" mentality too, and it really drives me nuts. Each of us is an individual, and we absolutely need to be treated as such. I think a lot of people nowadays have lost sight of that one factor. Specifically, it seems that most people who work in VR agencies hold this very narrow-minded viewpoint. Sadly it seems that our two blindness "advocacy" organizations are for the most part avoiding--or trying to avoid--any change in this respect. This is definitely true of one of the afore-mentioned organizations, and to a much lesser extent it is true of the other organization. What works for one person, i.e., performing O&M tasks under "sleepshades" so that not even the slightest bit of remaining vision may be utilized, may not and most probably will not work for others. By the same token, a sheltered workshop just might be the make-or-break answer in a given scenario. It simply depends upon the individual person's skill level, and there is absolutely nothing associated with that to be ashamed of. My main reason for not joining any advocacy organization for the blind up to this point, is that there's just so much disagreement that it's almost worthless even trying to get in the middle of it. I truly believe these disagreements happen over issues which not only seem on the outset to be petty, but that actually are petty. We people with visual impairments I'm told make up the largest minority of anyone, so let's stop all the in-fighting right now and start speaking with a collective voice to improve services in this country for our population, now and in the future. There's way too much fighting going on in the world anyway--too much abuse of power.

I believe that this is a one sided perception. We are a low incidence disability and one of the most feared to lose. until we are the majority we will only live up to the expectations of the majority, the sighted community. until the majority changes its perception of what a blind person can do and there are more of us this one sided perception will continue.

Sincerely Vince Llanas MSW

I dont think its that we have to be betterthen the sighted world , I think it is that it's that it is a lot harder to find a job for the disabled so when we do find one we try to keep it at any extent.

Interesting question and obviously filled with subjective content. Let's take the concept of being better. It is a subjective decision and although there may be some objective components it is always in the eye of the beholder. People with disabilities as viewed by others may be perceived to be at a disadvantage.

To them I would say climb a mountain as Erik Weihenmayer did. To them I would say tell me what you think that I cannot do and watch me do it. Life is competitive whether we like that fact or not. Thus, the need to prove that we are better.

If we are better, let us start our own businesses and set a standard that permits us to outpace, outflank and blow away the competition. We are assets, we have excellent abilities and it is high time that we get what is ours.

My parents brought me up to believe I had to do more and achieve more because of my handicaps. They were right. If I don't, then those people with misconceptions about blind people always chalk up any mistake we make to our disability, not an error in judgement nor even lack of skill. It's because we are blind. That fact somehow makes us inept in many people's eyes so we work hard to excel and attempt to dispell these ignorant notions. BTW when we do excel, we are looked at as the exception to the norm or people think we have some sort of advantage if we have reasonable accommodation. People I work with think I am amazing because I have a Master's degree, a mainstream job, and a family. Duh, big deal. I am proud of my accomplishments and my family, but isn't most anyone else. I know lots of handicapped people with advanced degrees, jobs, a house and kids.

It's not just disabled people who have experienced this paradigm, women have and are to some extent still experiencing it. Racial minorities are still experiencing it. Immigrants are still experiencing it. So it's not just us , it's almost everyone you come in contact with.

I think it depends on where you live, what kind of industry or work you're involved in and what societal attitudes are . Until attitudes change about anyone who is not a white male for the most part, disabled people, women and racial minorities, immigrants are going to have to do more and be more.

Change takes a long time, decades, if not centuries, depending upon one's culture and country of origin.

Legislation can help but women still make 77 cents to a man's dollar. And very few crack the glass ceiling and get into management or become ceos unless they start their own companies.

Persons with disabilities have to look to others' successes and ways of "movin on up" and emulate them. Maybe we need more disabled people to start their own companies, become entrepeneurs and be examples to others. Maybe we need more disabled teachers, architects, computer and adaptive technology designerer, musicians, entertainers, journalists, whatever career you can think of.

The first thing though we have to do is know our own strengths as well as our weakness, treat ourselves with dignity , as well as treat others with dignity. Don't make someone a "nobody "because we don't happen to agree with their opinion or point of view or how they behave. We have to accept ourselves and our disabilities as they contribute to the person we are and are becoming. We have to be present and not thinking about what's happened in the past orwhat's going to happen in the future constantly but where we are right now and how we can contribute now. Each of us needs to be self-assertive when we have to be and stand up for him/herself. We all have to live and work with integrity and find our own purpose and define for ourselves ,individuallym what success is. Your definition and mine might be radically different. And finally we have to take responsibility for ourselves, our actions, our words, our deeds and face whatever consequences come our way -good or bad. We all need to walk with a good positive sense of self-esteem no matter who we encounter and no matter what they may say or do to us. We can shift the paradigm, but we need to do so now .

Treat others as we'd want ourselves to be treated and that 's not just in the workplace but in our home, our school , our volunteer activities, our church, temple or mosque.

Liz, You may desire to refer to my initial post. Much of what was noted is echoed in your post. In reading material posted, to date, I find one continuous thread, i.e. what is needed to be done now. If, one will read my initial post on this topic, I cited George Santiana. While I wholeheartedly agree to be prepared for the present/future, we, as Disability Community Members must lay our groundwork on a strong foundation. I believe the individuals quoted previously should be the focal point of laying that foundation.

I am sorry to find question after question month after month asking how each of us feels society relates to us as disabled folks.

I do my best to do what I do better as I go on rather than thinking of doing better in relation to others, disabled or otherwise. All this comparing of myself to white males, white females, Latino males or females, black males and females is sapping energy away from my doing well.

Obsessive comparing tends to breed upsets. The people I know who compare themselves to others a lot get angry, get neurotic and just plain complain a lot.

Let's ask questions which get us thinking about how we do things well. Let's ask questions to get us past barriers. Questions might include how we can start businesses, what experiences we have had doing things where we rely on ourselves for income and such. Let's ask practical questions which produce tangible results rather than ones which turn us inward, make us feel sorry for ourselves and blame others.

As a blind woman in a third tier management role, looking to take the next step into tier two and on to a Chief Executive role within the next five years, I think the issue is one of belief. Or rather the lack of belief in our capabilities, demonstrated by employers - time after time.

I always find a way to mention that I read Braille and use a guide dog in my resume, so those shortlisting for the role are not surprised to meet me if I am interviewed. I tend to get job interviews around 7 times out of 10 and often it's pretty obvious I'm being interviewed to satisfy EEO principles or because of down-right curiosity to meet this blind woman who manages staff and a multi million dollar budget. But if that's what gets me the interview then that's fine, because I then have the opportunity to demonstrate my communication and lateral thinking skills etc.

I attend these interviews and give presentations and answer the standard interview questions posed to me. Then I usually advise the panel that I am happy to discuss my blindness, thus putting them at their ease regarding their curiosity about this.

It is generally obvious to me at this point, that my blindness is on top for these people because their questions usually come in rapid bursts, which then leads me to wonder whether they have heard any of my presentation and/or answers to the standard interview questions.

I am about to apply for two high level roles and have decided to find a way to incorporate how I manage my disability, into the interview answers as early on as possible. I feel it's important that I bring home to the panel the fact that I am a very able person, who uses adaptive technology and a guide dog. I'm different and I often do things differently, but that doesn't mean I'm unable to perform a high level strategic management role.

But going back to lack of belief in our capabilities on the part of employers, I have a question of my own: how do we beat the employer fear factor and convince them to believe that we are real, capable people, who can contribute much of value to their businesses?

I have a question Pam, I have been told that I should not bring up my disability until the 2nd or 3rd interview. I know that I am low vision and I don't appear to have a problem that is visible unless they see me reading or having to test. (besides the quad cane for balance, but I can move pretty fast.) I am not going for the management job. Just office or clerical position?

I believe that, Darrell, is living under a false assumption. A, Disabled Worker, never had to actually be better than everyone else and it is the same Today.

Work performed must be commensurate to the standard prerequisite's. What is as important are, Personal habit's, Reliability, Trust, Team work and general, Likeability.

Everyone has great comments and ideas. i agree with Jake on his issues of the blind organizations and the disagreements and to me, it seems that the greater population of people that I have met that are blind is a more "poor me" attitude. I certainly see radiance throughout this forum when it comes to all disabilities and I am utterly greateful for the provoking thoughts and answers that some radiate here. I still beleive that underneath all of us, despite that we have skills and abilities, I think secretly we all "have something to prove", or "we need to be better". My reason for this is because all of us seem to have degrees, etc. I am not seeing the writings of people that sit back collect their social security check and cry the blues. Not that I am bashing on those that choose to do so. All I am pondering is... of those individuals that do "cry the blues" aren't pushing past the barriers that each of us are. Thus, is there a hidden "we need to be better" push in all of us that makes us, well really ALL of you guys successful?

Now I have a question for all of you experienced well grounded professionals to give advice to someone who has gotten an education, only BA so far, and who has worked part-time for the past 15 years to be available for three children and support a husband how moved up his ladder, figuring my time would come. After a divorce, I am now trying to get back full time in the work force with a livable wage. I am faced with the same question, "why have you not worked full timme in so long, and do you think you could handle full time work now"? I think it more pertains to my vision and my guide dog and anything else. I am in my early 40's, vital, strong, healthy, why else this question? How could I break the barriers such as these in interviews?

I too do public speaking, but I can't seem to land the job. Some say not to bring the guide dog in, others say don't deceive. Professionals say don't discuss your disabilities, but I feel that it seems to put them more at ease. I am so confused on what is right, what is wrong annd how best to help myself. Can any of you experienced professionals please advise.