Networking Forum

She shouldn't have to mention the dog in the cover letter. It is against the law for a company to ask about how they are going to accomodate someone's disability until there is an offer on the table. Forcing her to mention her service animal is not legal. RIGHT?

My first gut reaction is: what kind of training did that VR counselor have? A good counselor should be at least somewhat proactive where people with challenges are concerned. The disclosure issue is always a tricky one. There does not seem to be a clear cut answer. However, I feel that you might want to hold off on the disclosure until you have secured an interview for yourself. In the process of establishing the interview location you may be able to ask for very specific directions. At that point you might disclose that uses a dog; stressing that your guide dog is your passport to independence.

What is Joe's disability and what kind of job is he applying for. It has become my understanding that some counselors or social security office workers don't want to do their jobs,or even know what their talking about. I have learned more about SSDI and ADA dealing with groups on the internet than these people in my state can tell me. If you go to the web site of your local rehab agency,Im sure they'll say something about job placement etc. That's good advertising,but what does your counselor do in reality? To my understanding, some act like they missed class when ADA regulations and programs were discussed. If it were that easy to just roll up in a wheel chair and get a job who the heck would need VR or any programs.If it were so easy, why do people on this group have to congratulate people like being the first black astronaut or first female president. Here is something to think about. If one has to hire a person to do a job and the choices comes down to a person with a disability and one without,an employer might think twice about hiring that disabled person. An employer may think that there will be some difficulty of the disabled person doing the job or that he might have make an "accomodation." Why would he go through the trouble of hiring that disbled person. I'm not talking about a person who has a heart condition and is applying for a desk job. I'm talking about the kind of disability that other people can see and don't wanna be around. Sure If that disabled person stands out and his resume and reputation were extraordinary he would certainly, probably, might,maybe___ get the job;depending on the severity of the disability.Here's an example from my experience, My former best friend of 12 years chose someone else that he had just met to clean up a building that he had been contracted to clean.He felt my eyesight would be a factor,and that I would not be able to make it to work or do an effective job. Cleaning a D#$n building, and you good folks are talking about applying for professional jobs; competing against non disabled workers. Are you crazy! People are very prejudiced and I ain't talking about skin color. Let's be honest that depending on the disability and the type of work,, some people need a big helping hand getting the door open. Oh yeah,what kind of work are you folks referring to when you say one should look for a job where having a guide dog isn't a factor. I was trying to get a job once on a casino doing surveillance;though I'm legally blind,how ironic. Go head wit'yo bad self and apply for a job in surveillance with extra thick glasses like I wear ;squinting at the application in front of the interviewer.(It was one of the only decent job they had open besides dishwasher,or I could have stayed at the job I had unloading trucks at night alone in a very dark builiding.)Based on my vision and not having a driver's license I have been turned down for so many jobs.I was once turned down at a car wash that paid five dollars and hour
because I did not have a driver's license. Now maybe it's my location,but that sucks. Before I ended up on SSDI,I never used VR and I was able to get some jobs. Most were dead end and very low paying jobs that nobody really wanted,no one stayed long. Those kind of places that were alway shorthanded. Believe me when I tell you that I was a hard worker.I worked hard mainly because most of the people on these job realized I was not seeing all that well and they poked fun at me. I was always trying to prove myself,yet I was always the last for any promotions and was always the last man on the totem pole. I'm sorry If I am a bit negative;I don't mean to discourage anyone. All I can tell Joe is that he has to make that employer believe that he won't have any difficulty getting the job done and that what ever disability he is afflicted with will not be a problem in no way shape or form. If it is a job worth having believe me when I say people are waiting in line to get it. Joe you're going to have to really be confident and "talk up", for yourself,especially If it is a competitve job. I always wanted to come into a situation where I did not have to hide the fact that my sight is crappy ,but like the lady at the employment service said,"sometimes it's best not to be so honest." Lastly you make VR and any other agency do their d#$n job;keep em' on their toes. One of their functions is to serve you and not collect a check saying that they served you. Currently, I am on SSDI or as we call it a safety net and, I need some part time work. I have to go at it alone because after I attempted to get a new counselor she and I have'nt spoken in about two years. I believe there might be some tension.I;ll let you know how things turn out.

I am currently pursuing my Master's degree in HR Management and have just completed a class on employment law. An employer, by law, cannot ask you anything regarding your disability with regards to setting up an interview. That being said, there are times when they need to know. For example, if you are applying for a position and are not using an agency such as VR and you are told that you will be required to complete an application prior to interviewing. In that case, you would probably need to inform them of your situation. As for the guide dog? What purpose would that serve? I am not a dog owner but hope to be very soon, but your dog is essentially acting as your eyes--so why would a potential employer need to know that information? If you were coming in with a cane you would not tell them over the phone that you were using a cane, and I do not for this example view a guide dog any differently. Unless you are applying for a job with an organization that specifically deals with disability-related issues, I would not list anything about your disability or a guide dog in your cover letter. The only way that this information would be helpful, is if you can relate it back to the knowledge/experience that you have that you feel makes you the best candidate for the job. If you cannot, then what you will have is a case of presenting a future employer with more information than he/she needs to know about you.

I may be wrong, but that is just my take on this topic.

I am in favor of not disclosing your disability until you show up for the interview unless you have a good reason to do so (e.g., if you need an accommodation) for two reasons: the person setting up the interview usually doesn't communicate the disability to the person conducting the interview and interviewer behavior around my blindness has been the same whether or not I have disclosed prior to the interview.

I've heard this question several times. It is one of those questions which has several answers depending on your personality. Some people feel more comfortable telling the employer everything first before the interview. Others feel they have a better shot of getting the job once they are in front of the interviwer. Either way, I feel it makes sense to get a confirmed appointment based on your resume skills. Then once the appointment is set, you can tell the employer about your disability or guide dog. This way you do have an appointment but be prepared to play down your disability or guide dog and have your prepared opening remarks ready. Remember your a sales person when interviewing. Once your in the interview it is not about your skills. If they didn't like your skills they would not be interviewing you. So, be ready to be the most engaging person you can be and the fact you have a guide dog or cane will become less of an issue.

I must say I find the response of the V.R. counselor quite disturbing. It is totally inappropriate, probably illegal, and indicates a lack of knowledge about the law as well as the field in which he/she works.
Having said that, I think it's a matter of personal choice and comfort level how you deal with the disclosure question. You are not required to disclose, but you may feel at some point it would be to your advantage to do so. Or it may not. I would certainly not leave my dog at home when I went to an interview because I would feel I'd need to dog to get there. It then becomes my job to answer questions from the potential employer and do as much educating as I could under the circumstances. I am inclined not to disclose until the interview phase.

First, I think that the VR counsellor is greatly misguided. I believe that any employer would have questions and concerns about a guide dog. Therefore, it will be impossible to look for a job where a guide dog is not a concern.

Second, mentioning the fact that you have a guide dog in your cover letter or resume prepares either or both for the "circular file." Therefore, do not mention your guide dog in the cover letter or resume. Also, do not be afraid to show up to the interview with your guide dog. If the prospective employer is intelligent, they will take this in stride. If you get rejected because of the guide dog, you did not want that job anyway. However, be prepared to answer questions about your guide dog. Granted it is illegal for the interviewer to ask questions about the dog's bathroom habits etc., it will happen. Just roll with the punches. Answer the questions in a calm manner. It will be okay. I've been through this quite a bit in the past.

I work at the Department Of Work and Pentions, in the UK, and have written quite a few resumes (CV'S), but have been advised not to mention my visual impairment,until the interview, as this prevents the prespective employer from discriminating against you before the interview, as they should interview you on your merrits, not your disability, or because you have a guidedog.

Ummm, lots of good stuff for a woman like me to chew on!! I have been of the opinion that interviewers don't like surprises so I have tucked the fact about my guide dog in a sentence that downplays the dog but shows how and where she is while I successfully perform the skills needed for the position. And...who wrote a note assuming that every Jo is a male?? Good example of how assumptions by employers can make everyone look like a fool! I would never, never, never go to an interview without my best dog in the whole wide world!! If we both dress for success, we get double points, right? I've been asked every question in the book about the dog and in one interview I said, "Ya know, I'm here for a job interview so after you've hired me for the job, we can go for coffee and I'll tell you how proud I am to be able to have such a phenomenal tool for travel." "So, you want someone with computer knowledge..., etc." My VR counselor was absolutely inappropriate, as I see it...and then she said I could be trained to manage a vending stand! Guess what? That's not my cup of tea and never has been. To cross contaminate this post, I'm SO thrilled that my dog is happy wearing the same brushed, shiny oat to work every day! She's a classic-looking shepherd and I'd be embarrassed not to dress in the same style since we're such a coordinated team! I love the thoughts...keep them coming!

Jo, revealed a lot, of information in her short statement.

She has had no experience with Agency personnel and usual practices. She has just met, apparently briefly with her new Counselor.

The Counselor was somewhat remiss, by jumping directly into discussion work. The Counselor needed a professional work up on Jo and clearly understand her skills, therefore, have a good knowledge, of her strengths and weakness.

Generally speaking, Dog Guides, are a cover, for not having gained good and dependable travel skills.

During my long career, I yet have, to discover a job ad, or announcement, where the prospective employer requested, a blind man with accompanying Dog Guide.

Many people are afraid of Dogs, they hate the odor, and bad Dog habits. People dread having, to actually have a dog in their automobile, in their house, office, or most any place.

Dogs are time consuming, and are a distraction, at work, or school, or social settings.

Should a blind person really like Dogs, then do as I have done all my life, and that is own Dogs, but keep them out, of other peoples domains.

In short develop good long cane travel skills, never mention a Dog, and never, even consider dragging a Dog around, outside your home.

C. Fred Stout

As a successfully-employed guide dog user myself, I was saddened to read of such comments being made to another guide dog handler by a VR counselor. When I've applied for positions, I have always done my utmost to demonstrate my capabilities, while "keeping it real" at the same time. If you're not planning to retire your dog if and when you acquire the job, I believe it is deceptive to interview for the position without the dog present and then to show up with the dog in hand on your first day of employment. Bottom line: If the potential employer doesn't accept you fully for who you truly are, you definitely do not want to work for that entity.

On another note: Please do not equate VR counselors with God-like status. Unless a VR counselor is him/herself blind or has worked extensively with individuals who utilize guide dog as their primary mobility aid, they have no credibility when it comes to advising you with regard to the guide dog issue. Instead, you might log on to www.gdui.org and request advice from Guide Dog Users, Inc., regarding this issue.

Good luck!

The way we have found that works best for presenting the side issue of a vision impairment to a prospective employer is to have the counselor make a courtesy telephone call to the potential employer AFTER an interview has been scheduled. Sharing the basics in all the great resources out there, answering any questions the employer may have about the vision impairment's impact on his or her company and job, helps to put it in a better perspective as a side issue. This helps the employer and potential employee interview to determine if the potential employee is the best person for the position. It takes the "surprize" out of the situation and sidelines the vision instead of making it the center of focus. While it is true that it is not legally neccessary to share about an impairment ahead of time, handled well, this can defuse the situation in the mind of a fearful potential employer, offer them a more comfortable education, and allow the focus to be where it should properly be- on the skills and apptitudes the potential employee has to offer.

I am going to get my first guide dog in about 1.5 weeks but feel that using a guide dog or using a cane really has no bearing on the disclosure issue. Since my vision impairment is not relevant to me performing the duties of a job I am applying for, I don't tell the perspective employer ahead of time that I am blind. If I can secure an interview on my skills, why would I jeopardise the situation by mentioning my vision impairment?
I had an experience when I was applying for a job about 5 years ago where I had scheduled an interview through a head hunter for a job at a medical school. When I arrived, I was met by the head hunter (let's call him Derrick for sake of convenience) who said "hang on a second, I'll go see if they are ready". He came back about 5 minutes later and apologizes that everyone is out today and that he will have to reschedule. I was a little put off but did not immediately assume anything had gone wrong; I was 19 at the time so did not have enough experience.
As it happened, I had unknowingly applied for the same job through a different head hunter. I went in for an interview 2 days later and after 15 minutes was offered the job. A week or so later, the director of the group I was working in called me into his office for a brief chat. He asked if I had been brought in for an interview by the previously mentioned head hunter (Derrick) about 1.5 weeks ago. I said that I had and explained what had happened. He was appalled and explained that the head hunter had come into his office and told him that I had not shown up for the interview.
Justice was served in a fashion about a week later when Derrick came in to take some of his other contractors out for lunch. Let's just say that he was quite surprised to see me sitting at a desk and working. The director also had a nice little chat with him which resulted in a rather poor excuse of an apology letter from Derrick.
I worked at the medical for about 6 years until I recently moved out of the area. I have had a few interviews since then and I was pleasantly surprised with the way that the various interviewers conducted themselves; no one asked me any blatantly inappropriate questions or made any off-color comments.

The point I am getting at is that I do not believe that it is in the interviewee's interest to inform the perspective employer about his/her disability; this includes whether or not he/she uses a cane or a guide dog. Frankly, these details only seem to give an employer an excuse to can the interview without assessing the interviewee's suitability for the job in a face-to-face meeting. I have never worked with a disability employment service so cannot speak from experience; I would still venture to say that have a counselor call ahead to explain the disability only constitutes unnecessary intervention. A blind individual should be able to stand on their own; the counselor's role should be to help the individual develop the skills to stand on their own, not to act as a crutch. As some other commenters noted, most of these counselors have no personal experience with blindness so are not in a great position to speak from experience.

Just my 2 cents.

Matt

C. Fred Stout's comments are a bit off topic and not all that helpful. I think good travel skills are necessary to effectively work a guide dog and should be in place prior to partnering with a dog, but that wasn't the topic. The question was when or if to disclose that you have a dog. I never considered this and interviewed prior to getting my most recent guide, arriving for interviews witha cane and, after getting a new dog, with my dog. I never found the cane or the dog the issue. I found the blindness the issue. When I did achieve successful employment, I interviewed with my dog. One of the men interviewing me loved the dog while the other four didn't make much notice. The only thing the guy asked me was whether he could get my dog some water and that was before I left the building after my interview. I got that job and am still working there. I have not found my dog a problem in my employment. My guide is adored by my colleagues and especially my boss. I often get comments from attorneies and other parties during my conferences that the dog is so well behaved that they forgot she was there-- A point my guide dog school would be proud of. The fact remains that it is illegal to discriminate and C. Fred Snout should be ashamed for condoning discrimination of any kind. Guide dog or cane user, we all have the right to equal opportunity and opinions don't matter. The law is what matters. If a person is not hired because they are a guide dog user, it is discriminatory. Never condone such treatment, whatever your personal opinions are. A blind job candidate should be judged solely on qualifications and ability. By the way, I work in civil rights enforcement and mediate and investigate discrimination complaints. I've yet to see a job ad for a blind guy with a long white cane either. And, just for clarification, I travel competently with a dog or a cane because I'm competent in general. As far as disclosure, I found it smarter to never tell before and let the element of surprise work in my favor. If a person is going to be open minded, they'll be open minded. If they're narrow, telling before or after really won't make a difference.